R-S3058 Likely Born or Migrated to Scotland or Northern England by 1900 BC

R-S3058 is one of eight child lineages of R-DF21, a prolific British Isles lineage from 1900 BC that is attested by ancient DNA and linked to the exogenous Bell Beaker population. PhyloGeographer recently computed the origin of R-DF21 to near the Isle of Man.

There are 29 samples in R-S3058 on the YFull tree that are geolocated to the Old World.

Several of the lineages are widely distributed, found in each corner of the British Isles. There is no smoking gun (ancient DNA) proving the ancestor of R-S3058 who lived 1900 BC was born in or spent most of his life in Scotland or Northern England, but the modern distribution suggests this may have been the case.

Little is conclusive about the computed origins of these lineages for a number of reasons:

The only highly geographically consistent lineage of R-S3058 is R-Y22972 yet it's dated to just ~1070 AD and the specific region of Scotland cannot be known due to lack of regional codes. By 1070 AD many forces could have resulted in a migration to Scotland from other regions such as Ireland and England within the last millennia. In addition to the Anglo Saxons pushing north from England, there was a union known as Dal Riata connecting the coast of northern Ireland with the Scottish Isles.

Another lineage, R-BY2719 split into two lineages 1400 BC. One lineage traces descent to Skye and the other to Kent and another unknown location in England. There isn't enough information to know whether their common ancestor was living in Scotland or England. What is clear at least is that by 1400 BC the Englishmen had likely migrated to England (if they were not already living there).

By far the most prolific of the lineages is R-S424 born ~270 AD.

The origin of R-S424 cannot reliably be computed because the majority of the samples are either "Scotland" or "England" with no regional code and the samples are about equally distributed through the UK.

If the regional codes were known, it is possible that these branches would not be calculated to be so distant from one another. Indeed they could trace from neighboring areas of England and Scotland.

If you are any of these samples on YFull and you know a more specific birthplace for your most distant known male line ancestor, please update your location.

1. Log into YFull and click "settings" on the right (from the phone click the 'hamburger menu' on the top left)

2. Click "Country of Origin"

3. If you are from England or Wales you can get to regional codes by selected "United Kingdom" from the country drop down. Otherwise select Scotland or Ireland.

Please recommend these people to update their settings in the appropriate research groups. If they do I can recalculate the paths and update the article.

This article has been sponsored by one of my Patreon customers. You can commission me to write an article about your ancestors. I do not profess to be an expert in every haplogroup but I will objectively analyze the distribution of YFull and other ancient samples and share theoretical approximate haplogroup origins. When the data suggests an association with an ancient culture or historical events I do my best to refer to relevant resources.

These posts are the opinion of Hunter Provyn, a haplogroup researcher in J-M241 and J-M102.

3 thoughts on “R-S3058 Likely Born or Migrated to Scotland or Northern England by 1900 BC”

  1. Living DNA tells me I belong to haplogroup R-S3058, i am currently researching my family tree
    my furthest ancestor found so far on my fatherline was born in Polmont Scotland around 1850 surname McKinnon.

    1. Dave have you uploaded your DNA to Familytreedna?Im also R-S3058 and this report pertains to me and others who are R-S3058.If you do upload to Familytreedna you can do a Y-37 test or the Big Y.From there you can join the Df21 group which i and others belong too.In that group they will place you with others you match too.This will help out your research.Regards,John Urbino-Morrison

  2. There is some evidence that Z18000 was at Boghall castle near Biggers in Scotland. Starks were definitely there. The surnames Boggs and Bogle suggest a connection. The Livingston’s in the group trace to Dalgetty, Fife, but they only trace there in the early 1700’s.

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